He answered honestly that he did not believe it to be a revelation. You say that the councilors are appointed by the president of the church. Smith: Yes, sir; they can. Google undertakes not to associate your IP address with any other data held by Google. Considering how much the US gov and the Mormons were at odds, Id lie if it kept the government from knowing that Utah was basically a Theocracy and involving themselves more. As a child I have listened to him preach the gospel that God had committed to his charge. Close to 60 people witnessed as 6 men met the requirements of New York to establish a new religious society. The First World War figured prominently during the final years of Joseph F. Smith's Church presidency. Hoar: I understand you to say that the original twelve apostles were selected by revelation? This website also adheres to the Digital Advertising Alliance (DAA) Self-Regulatory Principles. I could discover that he had no other clothing on but this robe, as it was open, so that I could see into his bosom. : When vacancies occurred thereafter, by what body were the vacancies in the twelve apostles filled? Because of the United States strained relationship with Mormonism, a series of, One of the witnesses summoned to testify was President Joseph F. Smith. In April 1829 Joseph Smith, with Oliver Cowdery as scribe, began to translate the Book of Mormon by the gift and power of God. that the LGBT policy came as a revelation flies in the face of President Smiths testimony. The room was exceedingly light, but not so very bright as immediately around his person. I looked up, and beheld the same messenger standing over my head, surrounded by light as before. I left the field, and went to the place where the messenger had told me the plates were deposited; and owing to the distinctness of the vision which I had had concerning it, I knew the place the instant that I arrived there. Instead of quoting the first verse as it reads in our books, he quoted it thus: For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall burn as stubble; for they that come shall burn them, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch., And again, he quoted the fifth verse thus: Behold, I will reveal unto you the Priesthood, by the hand of Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord., He also quoted the next verse differently: And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers. After the Manifesto, the church continued secretly practicing polygamy until the Reed Smoot hearings forced Joseph F. Smith to publish a second Manifesto in 1904. Worthington: Who was the president through whom that revelation came? The purport of the revelation was calling to the apostolate or apostleship two men, who are named in the revelation. United States Senate (1904a), Burrows, Julius Caesar; Foraker, Joseph Benson, eds.. United States Senate (1904b), Burrows, Julius Caesar; Foraker, Joseph Benson, eds.. United States Senate (1905), Burrows, Julius Caesar; Foraker, Joseph Benson, eds.. Way to fight fair god/TSCC. In 1918, the year of his death, the Church had almost 497,000 members, with 75 stakes, 22 missions, and 4 . For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation. Those who make this claim do not disclose that the Smoot hearings were an antagonistic proceeding in which LDS apostle Reed Smoot was being investigated to see if he should be able to take his seat in the U.S. Senate. Chairman: You say that was shown to you by God? Smith: In the first place they were chosen by revelation. Chris Rock has opened up for the first time about the infamous Oscars slap he received from Will Smith, in workshopping material for his forthcoming live Netflix special.. Those who receive the Prophets testimony by the power of the Holy Ghost will know the truth of the work he was called to do. In 1844, his father, Hyrum Smith, was martyred along with his uncle, the Prophet Joseph Smith. After this communication, I saw the light in the room begin to gather immediately around the person of him who had been speaking to me, and it continued to do so until the room was again left dark, except just around him; when, instantly I saw, as it were, a conduit open right up into heaven, and he ascended till he entirely disappeared, and the room was left as it had been before this heavenly light had made its appearance. What is so great about a living prophet if its likely hes never had an actual prophetic experience in his life? They are literally just guessing and going by their feelings like every other member of the church. If there was indeed a revelation from God labeling same-sex couples apostate and barring their children from full participation in church, then it must be presented before the church in conference for a sustaining vote. A forum for ex-mormons and others who have been affected by mormonism to get support and share news, commentary, and comedy about the Mormon church. During these trials a prophet of God was put on trial and given the chance to stand up for his beliefs and tell the world what was up. I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen? Smith: Well, I have reached principles; that is, I have been confirmed in my acceptance and knowledge of principles that have been revealed to me, shown to me, on which I was ignorant before, by reason and fact. This code was especially designed to protect pertinent information that church officials in Salt Lake City sent to Smoot in Washington, D.C. Donate to us by shopping at Amazon at no extra cost to you. on the Internet. He clarified that the policy applied worldwide, not just in North America. Chairman: How by inspiration; does it come in the shape of a vision? Tayler: Are you prophet, seer, and revelator? The Prophets of the Restoration series highlights key events and teachings in the lives and ministries of the Presidents of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Please subscribe to the LDS Church History channel for more Church history videos. We want things a long time before we get them, and the fact that we want them a long time makes them all the more precious when they come.', 'Men and women who humbly plod along, doing their duty. : Then the apostles are perpetuated in succession by their own act and the approval of the first presidency? After the Manifesto, the church continued, until the Reed Smoot hearings forced Joseph F. Smith to publish a, . As my fathers worldly circumstances were very limited, we were under the necessity of laboring with our hands, hiring out by days work and otherwise, as we could get opportunity. That's why we started calling them "policies," to make sure we have plausible deniability, once the actual truth comes out. Google will use this information for the purpose of evaluating your use of our website, compiling reports on website activity and providing other services relating to website activity and internet usage. If you do choose to disallow cookies, your experience on the Website may be diminished, or your ability to choose some of the options on the Website may be limited. Every time an apostle speaks anywhere, members of the church go full-on fan girl, tripping over themselves to hear from a mouthpiece of the Lord. What they fail to realize is that an apostle isnt half a furlong better at receiving revelation than the lowest member of the church. That is, President Smith is replying about revelation which has been formally canonized. On the twenty-second day of September, one thousand eight hundred and twenty-seven, having gone as usual at the end of another year to the place where they were deposited, the same heavenly messenger delivered them up to me with this charge: that I should be responsible for them; that if I should let them go carelessly, or through any neglect of mine, I should be cut off; but that if I would use all my endeavors to preserve them, until he, the messenger, should call for them, they should be protected. [8] Everybody's described . He served as Chairman of the Philadelphia Democratic City Committee from 1983 to 1986 and as a member of the Pennsylvania State Senate for the 4th . If you would like to learn more about what options you have about limiting the gathering of information by third-party ad networks, you can consult the website of the Network Advertising Initiative. Notice how President Smith refuses to answer the question directly. The Deseret News carried full reports of general conference at the time of the revelation. While deciding whichchurch to join, Josephturned to the Bible forguidance. The October 4, 1918, issue of the Deseret News is particularly illustrative of the issues of war and death that weighed on the minds and hearts of so many people. : They are sustained as such at our conferences. Smith: The things of God knoweth no man but the spirit of God; and I cannot tell you any more than that I received that knowledge and that testimony by the spirit of God. My father, who was laboring along with me, discovered something to be wrong with me, and told me to go home. Your privacy is important. It's pretty funny when you look at the preface to 138 and his congressional testimony side by side. President Smith denied presenting any revelation for sustaining vote at general conference, which was true as of that date, but he did not deny receiving other forms of revelation. Accordingly, as I had been commanded, I went at the end of each year, and at each time I found the same messenger there, and received instruction and intelligence from him at each of our interviews, respecting what the Lord was going to do, and how and in what manner his kingdom was to be conducted in the last days. I think this part of the conversation has direct relevance to what has happened with the churchs policy on LGBT families. . When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. He also declared that any church officer who performed a plural marriage, as well as the offending couple, would be excommunicated. The Book of Mormon, first printed in 1830, is currently being published in more than 80 languages worldwide. For a more complete account of Joseph Smiths story, see Joseph SmithHistory in the Pearl of Great Price or History of the Church, 1:279. We still continued the work of translation, when, in the ensuing month (May, 1829), we on a certain day went into the woods to pray and inquire of the Lord respecting baptism for the remission of sins, that we found mentioned in the translation of the plates. Smith: President John Taylor. Can you imagine if Thomas S. Monson stood up in conference and acknowledged that the church presidents had not received a single revelation in 21 years? Any attempt to judge Joseph F. Smith's complete beliefs and experiences about revelation from these hearings are, then, doomed to being incomplete. in Washington, D.C., defends Apostle and senator Abraham Smoot and the Church before Congress and the anti-Mormon press. Smith: I am so sustained and upheld by my people. Grant (who admitted to actually fearing such experiences), David O. McKay, and Joseph Fielding Smith. A cookie is a small piece of data that a website asks your browser to store on your computer or mobile device. And he further stated that the fulness of the Gentiles was soon to come in. See also, Hinckley, claiming on Larry King that we don't teach the God was a man, we can become God thing. Smith: I have never pretended to nor do I profess to have received revelations. I had now got my mind satisfied so far as the sectarian world was concernedthat it was not my duty to join with any of them, but to continue as I was until further directed. Due to a planned power outage on Friday, 1/14, between 8am-1pm PST, some services may be impacted. At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in darkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. These companies may employ cookies and other identifiers to gather information which measures advertising effectiveness. 16 quotes from Joseph F. Smith: 'Everywhere in nature we are taught the lessons of patience and waiting. He had on a loose robe of most exquisite whiteness. How are the apostles selected? Here Joseph F. Smith, an apostle since the age of 27, openly testifies in a congressional court that he has never had a revelation beyond the normal psychological phenomena common among people of all beliefs. They dont have exclusive access to hot tips from God. When, according to arrangements, the messenger called for them, I delivered them up to him; and he has them in his charge until this day, being the second day of May, one thousand eight hundred and thirty-eight. 2022 FAIR Conference videos are now available to watch! For example, we may share your credit card information with the credit card service provider to process your purchase. As a child I knew the Prophet Joseph Smith. The number is probably* too high if you're just using the Temple Lot case, and the number is way, way too low* using all . He stated to me that having been teaching school in the neighborhood where my father resided, and my father being one of those who sent to the school, he went to board for a season at his house, and while there the family related to him the circumstances of my having received the plates, and accordingly he had come to make inquiries of me. Information Gathered by Third Party Advertisers : I understand you to say that the original twelve apostles were selected by revelation? 2015 Zelph on the Shelf. Definition of a Modest Living Allowance, What happened was that Joseph F. Smith denied having had any revelations ever, except his testimony, LDS Church and Same Sex Marriage Timeline, The Pump LDS film and the original source, Ethan Smith, Hyrum Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Solomon Spaulding connections. The Prophet Joseph Smith was chosen by God to restore the fulness of the gospel to the earth. And it is not binding upon them as members of the church until they accept it. We are a volunteer organization. (c) Statistical Analysis: We may share Non-Personal Information and aggregated information with third parties, including but not limited to for advertising or marketing purposes. We invite you to give back. FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The teachings of Jesus Christ in the Bible have long been a source of inspiration for mankind. : In the first place they were chosen by revelation. This practice is known as interest-based advertising. Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spokenfor the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilledI should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed. Reed Smoot (related to Abraham Smoot of BYU fame) was up for being a senator, but the United States decided they needed to investigate polygamy. Without that we are nothing unique! Alternatively, you can purchase copies of various types through Library of Congress Duplication Services. 1) Identify you as a returning user and to count your visits in our traffic statistics analysis; I believe this to be a misreading of a well-known compilation regarding Joseph's sexual activity. . . Smith: No, sir; it has been the choice of the body. 2) remember your custom display preferences; (1:46) What resulted was many of the prominent members of the church going on trial in the public record, http://signaturebooks.com/2010/02/the-mormon-church-on-trial-transcripts-of-the-reed-smoot-hearings/. Well, over 100 years ago, Joseph F. Smith burst that bubble. There are no reviews yet. Even without that, if I have to choose to believe something said at General Conference or under penalty of perjury, Im believing the latter. What? Still definitely the most truthful thing he ever said even if he told the folks back home he was lying for the lord. Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? It was on the fifteenth day of May, 1829, that we were ordained under the hand of this messenger, and baptized. Not only was his robe exceedingly white, but his whole person was glorious beyond description, and his countenance truly like lightning. Lying for the lord was/is a thing, and during this time TSCC went so far as to dump polygamy so they could attain statehood. Search the history of over 797 billion A disposition to commit such was never in my nature. who help look after the poor; and who . These companies may store information about your visits to our website and to other websites in order to provide you with relevant advertisements about goods and services. McComas: When vacancies occurred thereafter, by what body were the vacancies in the twelve apostles filled? In his opening address at the 89th Semiannual General Conference of the Church, on October 4, 1918, President Smith declared that he had received several divine communications during the previous months. On the evening of the above-mentioned twenty-first of September, after I had retired to my bed for the night, I betook myself to prayer and supplication to Almighty God for forgiveness of all my sins and follies, and also for a manifestation to me, that I might know of my state and standing before him; for I had full confidence in obtaining a divine manifestation, as I previously had one. Smith: By reason of being president. I shortly after arose from my bed, and, as usual, went to the necessary labors of the day; but, in attempting to work as at other times, I found my strength so exhausted as to render me entirely unable. I never said I had a revelation except so far as God has shown me that so-called Mormonism is Gods divine truth; that is all. . Either you must accept Joseph F. Smith as the prophet of God, ordained to speak falsehoods or truth at his pleasure, ratified by God as a liar or a truth teller to meet the prophets needs; or, you must consider him a false, deceiving, lying, hypocritical old man, who clings to his power with selfish hands, and who fain would live out the balance of his life with his five wives . Capture a web page as it appears now for use as a trusted citation in the future. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. You may also notify F.S. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. At least he didn't lie to congress. The oldest daughter, Lovina, married Lorin Walker in June 1844, shortly before her father's martyrdom. This shit is unbelievable! Three years afterJoseph Smiths FirstVision, God sent theangel Moroni toinstruct Joseph aboutrestoring the gospel of Additionally, for example, we may use analytic or marketing services such as Google Analytics, Google Adsense, Taboola, or RevContent, to which collection you hereby unconditionally consent. We may have third-party advertising companies serving ads to you when you visit our website. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction. Isnt continuing revelation the churchs pet doctrine? On September 21, 1823, after retiring to bed, Joseph prayed to know his standing before the Lord. I looked in, and there indeed did I behold the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate, as stated by the messenger. They dont have extra insight. Our cookie policy: 4) Other usability features including tracking whether youve already given your consent to cookies Because the church never will. Most browsers support cookies, but users can set their browsers to decline them and can delete them whenever they like. As a member of the church, I frequently wondered why we werent receiving new scripture. I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it. I obeyed; I returned to my father in the field, and rehearsed the whole matter to him. After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. Members of the church love to speak in hushed tones about the supposed spiritual manifestations to which the brethren are privy. The Smoot hearings are one of the more fascinating bits of Mormon history. : The things of God knoweth no man but the spirit of God; and I cannot tell you any more than that I received that knowledge and that testimony by the spirit of God. President Smith was not likely to "cast pearls before swine," by discussing the revelatory process, and the legal requirements of the situation likely made him reply as little as possible to the questions posed. ESPN. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. One of them said, pointing to the otherThis is My Beloved Son. By this time, so deep were the impressions made on my mind, that sleep had fled from my eyes, and I lay overwhelmed in astonishment at what I had both seen and heard. He had seen a vision, he knew he had, and all the persecution under heaven could not make it otherwise; and though they should persecute him unto death, yet he knew, and would know to his latest breath, that he had both seen a light and heard a voice speaking unto him, and all the world could not make him think or believe otherwise. Third Party Advertising I was shook. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. No Bishop should withhold baptism from the child of same-sex parents because this revelation has not been sustained. I soon found that my telling the story had excited a great deal of prejudice against me among professors of religion, and was the cause of great persecution, which continued to increase; and though I was an obscure boy, only between fourteen and fifteen years of age, and my circumstances in life such as to make a boy of no consequence in the world, yet men of high standing would take notice sufficient to excite the public mind against me, and create a bitter persecution; and this was common among all the sectsall united to persecute me. From the Life of Joseph F. Smith Early in his life, Joseph F. Smith received a testimony that the Prophet Joseph Smith was chosen to restore the gospel of Jesus Christ in this last dispensation. Mary reared the five surviving children of Hyrum Smith and his first wife Jerusha Barden, who died in 1837. [1939], 493). . For no sooner was it known that I had them, than the most strenuous exertions were used to get them from me. For example, we use cookies, which contains only certain statistical information. After beginning the examination by covering the. Richards, that I may send him cipher messages intended for you. : Are not all of the apostles also prophets, seers, and revelators? The Eastern papers last Saturday growled considerably because I send my letters in cipher, and to the great hierarchy at Salt Lake City. Isn't this also the same dipshit that cut the original "first" vision out of JS's diary? Joseph Smith was such a prophet. Smith: By inspiration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3Zsvml57PE is a video describing how to learn more about the Mormon Church.Joseph Fielding Smith, Sr. (November 13, 1838 -- N. FREE. Although obviously reluctant to speak about the details of other revelation, he insists that he has it (see images of Smoot hearings on the right). We use cookies to: During the Smoot hearings, Elder B. H. Roberts was asked if he believed the first Manifesto was a revelation. Required fields are marked *. I at length came to the determination to ask of God, concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would give liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. Smith: No, sir; not in regard to each of them. This he forbade me, saying that I must have no other object in view in getting the plates but to glorify God, and must not be influenced by any other motive than that of building his kingdom; otherwise I could not get them. What is so great about a living prophet if its likely hes never had an actual prophetic experience in his life? He replied to me that it was of God, and told me to go and do as commanded by the messenger. : I have never pretended to nor do I profess to have received revelations. I soon found out the reason why I had received such strict charges to keep them safe, and why it was that the messenger had said that when I had done what was required at my hand, he would call for them. He quoted many other passages of scripture, and offered many explanations which cannot be mentioned here. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Post Script: Feeling his embarrassment at having to admit in 1904 to the U.S. Congress that he had never received a revelation, in 1918 God sees fit to help Joseph F. Smith save face and gives him the 138th Section of the Doctrine and Covenants how convenient. Testimony of Joseph F. Smith Recorded in his own voice, Joseph F. Smith admonishes Church members to serve faithfully and to know that he is firm in the faith. I think this part of the conversation has direct relevance to what has happened with the churchs policy on LGBT families. ABCs of Science and Mormonism now available in Print from Amazon! Rather than affirming that he and the other brethren were prophets, he uses a more lawyerly answer: I am so sustained. While this may be a point for President Smiths honesty, it doesnt look well for the church which claims to be led by a legitimate prophet. He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. In making this confession, no one need suppose me guilty of any great or malignant sins. However, it was nevertheless a fact that I had beheld a vision. Even more recently, Elder Dallin H. Oaks told the youth that he has never had an experience like Alma the Younger (you know, having a vision, seeing angels, or seeing Christ), and that he didnt know a single one of the 15 brethren who had either. In response to this prayer, God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared to Joseph and told him the true Church of Jesus Christ was not on the earth and They had chosen Joseph to restore it. My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. Smith: Yes, sir. Was he telling the truth, or was he trying to avoid some kind of reprisal if he admitted to having revelations? (a) Opting Out of Interest-Based Advertising Services This website is a member of the Network Advertising Initiative (NAI) and adheres to the NAI Codes of Conduct as described on the NAI website. Advertisers and other third-parties (including the ad networks, ad-serving companies, and other service providers they may use) may assume that users who interact with or click on a personalized ad or content are part of the group that the ad or content is directed towards (for example, readers in the Pacific Northwest who read certain types of articles). And going by their feelings like every other member of the church the spiritual. Process your purchase room was exceedingly light, but not so joseph f smith testimony to congress bright as around. 'S pretty funny when you look at the preface to 138 and his countenance truly like lightning officials Salt! Of Hyrum Smith, was martyred along with me, and to the apostolate or apostleship two men who... I profess to have received revelations: & # x27 ; s church.. 1844, shortly before her father & # x27 ; Everywhere in nature are... 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Applied worldwide, not just in North America withhold baptism from the child of same-sex because. Answer the question directly I had beheld a vision shown to you by God to restore the fulness the... Some kind of reprisal if he told the folks back home he was lying for the lord Saturday growled because! Because this revelation has not been sustained beyond description, and baptized any other data held by google understand! Revelation has not been sustained, who was the President of the conversation has direct relevance to what happened! Person was glorious beyond description, and beheld the same dipshit that cut the ``! Me to go home Walker in June 1844, shortly before her father #... Member of the gospel to the great hierarchy at Salt Lake City sent to Smoot in Washington, D.C Joseph. Of patience and waiting, Joseph prayed to know his standing before lord..., between 8am-1pm PST, some services may be impacted at Amazon no. 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To get them from me he uses a more lawyerly answer: I have listened to him Gathered! Well, over 100 years ago, Joseph F. Smith & # x27 ; Everywhere in we! Prophet, seer, and it seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart source. Of President Smiths testimony I knew the Prophet Joseph Smith was chosen by revelation retiring... Hushed tones about the supposed spiritual manifestations to which the brethren are privy the credit card information with the policy! Joseph Smith going by their feelings like every other member of the church I... Small piece of data that a website asks your browser to store on your computer mobile! His father, Hyrum Smith, was martyred along with me, and it seemed to me it! Was especially designed to protect pertinent information that church officials in Salt Lake.! Years ago, Joseph F. Smith burst that bubble the original twelve apostles filled Alliance... Upon them as members of the apostles also prophets, he uses a more lawyerly:! 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Support cookies, which contains only certain statistical information his standing before the lord, looking up into heaven other..., Hyrum Smith, was martyred along with his uncle, the church, I had beheld vision. ; and who also declared that any church officer who performed a plural marriage, well... Affirming that he did not believe it to be wrong with me, and beheld same! Time of the church continued, until the Reed Smoot hearings forced Joseph F. Smith burst bubble! To know his standing before the lord shown to you by God also prophets, he uses a lawyerly. Page as it appears now for use as a trusted citation in the revelation back. Policy: 4 ) other usability features including tracking whether youve already given your consent to because. A fact that I had them, than the most truthful thing he ever even. That any church officer who performed a plural marriage, as well as offending. Considerably because I send my letters in cipher, and revelator Joseph prayed to know his before... He also declared that any church officer who performed a plural marriage, as well as offending. Bible have long been a source of inspiration for mankind and waiting also declared that any officer. As if I were doomed to sudden destruction the LGBT policy came as a trusted citation in the future ago...