Craig Keener: Well I tried to get accounts from all over the world. The Mayo Clinic had diagnosed Barbara with multiple sclerosis. I wear glasses. It was from a different Congo so the person who did that doesn't know their geography. aliens, homeopathy). Since this is touted as one of the best, and one of only three papers ever seemingly cited when skeptics ask for evidence of miracles, is not impressive to say the least. I think we can. Do extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? But in this case, he had to have the medical documentation be he'd been on disability. President Barbara R. Snyder announced today that she will become the next leader of the organization that represents the 63 leading research universities in the U.S., as well as two in Canada. Without further data, it is impossible to rule out these things, but you'd think the data would be available with something this recent? Barbara Snyder's healing from MS shocked doctors. Intercessory prayer commences and one day he awakes to find his or her arm back on their body, intact. He was 2200 in one eye and 2400 in the other and had already been through training for the blind. Despite several operations and treatments, Barbara continued to deteriorate to the point that she was put into respite with doctor's orders not to resuscitate. What is that? I think a lot of times people will see something as a miracle because we're inclined to believe in miracles, you can also have confirmation bias to say I'm inclined not to see this as a miracle because I just don't think those things happen. Further, Nathan points out the problem is that Elijah needs to actually tell us some some epistemic story about what it is that puts people who pray in a position to know that God is the cause of the miracle happening. Thus we will more often hear from the healing crowd. And each of us have different tasks. When I've heard the murderer analogy it is to argue against Hume's uniform human experience against miracles, because someone could argue for the murderer by claiming it is against his uniform experience to murder someone -- he's never murdered anyone before. All subjects demonstrated improvement from the intervention. I don't understand how it's possible for both those things to be true. But she, but it happened. And we give Glory to God whenever we get the opportunity to be a part of those, but it's, we don't expect that, that the Kingdom, that we'll have experienced the Kingdom in its fullest now. perhaps a thickening of the intestine would look like a regrowth? -pomelo- 9 mo. And also, a lot of my African friends say, "Look, life in Africa's a miracle. He encountered scores of healings and other claims of the miraculous along the way, but there was one case in particular that truly blew his mind: the case of Barbara Snyder. UFO sightings happened all the time in the 1970s and 1980s but suddenly drop when we put cameras in everyone's pocket? Of course, it's possible her sight was perfect and declined in the 2 years between the "healing" and the measurement which would call into question the miraculous nature. Synder's miraculous healing, which unfolded more than 30 years ago, was apparently so shocking that even her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical turnaround. How would you eliminate the hypothesis that a miracle did in fact happen? She actually had to have a breathing tube because even her diaphragm didn't work on its own. But we also had the medical documentation. Now there's a downside to everything. Scott Rae is professor of Christian ethics and dean of the faculty at Talbot School of Theology. It was really the miracle of the resurrection and the historical evidence for that that ended up bringing me to faith many years ago, Strobel told Pure Flix Insider and The Billy Hallowell Podcast. But my skepticism didn't go away.. "So she basically pulls the tube out of her throat, says, 'Go find my parents' [and] jumps out of bed.". At the end of the project, Strobel said he was shocked to learn that miracles are not only common, but also well-documented. The way people like the stories highlights their way of thinking and provides a teachable moment about like why don't we trust claims just from the claims, even if it has a peer-reviewed journal article. A woman name Barbara Cummiskey Snyder was on the verge of death from MS that she had had for over 15 years. (Read also:Are the Biblical End Times upon us? Well first of all, the stories weren't all by any means from Congo, but my wife is from Congo. This male voice coming from the corner of the room where nobody was said, 'Get up my child and walk, Strobel recounted. "It got to the point where she was dying. He is, let's just say he is one of the most prolific biblical scholars that I'm aware of and is so productive. Facebook gives people the power. Author and evangelist Lee Strobel was once an atheist who served as the legal affairs editor for the Chicago Tribune before embarking on a quest to try and disprove Christianityan effort that ironically led him to embrace faith. What are some of the things that just sort of blew your mind that you researched, heard about, read about, came into first hand contact with as you explored this subject. Look, I have male pattern balding. Kamil points out that there is a mismatch between the magnitude of the claim and the attention they pay to documenting it. Here I summarize the (9 hour!) This doesn't affect the doctor reports, but the personal reports. The same thing occurs with UFO claims, homeopathy studies, and psychic abilities. Caleb was very nice in pointing out the documentation for the Barbara Snyder case, and correcting me in its reading. You can received notifications daily or weekly. Craig Keener: Yes. At least there is documentation published at https://seangeorge.com.au/my-story/medical-details/. One miracle in particular stands out. February 4, 2019 8. Edwin Booth, perhaps unfairly known today as the brother of assassin John Wilkes Booth, was once upon a time . After you lace up your boots, hit the trail. They dont want you to see this Big Tech does its best to limit what news you see. I had heard the story before from my wife, but it was actually when I interviewed the, my wife's source, that I got the details. So it seems to me you can't discount it all. I've read some of the first volume. And they said, "Macular degeneration doesn't undegenerate." And you just Well that was one of the reasons people argued against their reliability. So that's why Christianity featured that part. You look at the seven churches of Asia in the Book of Revelation. Craig Keener: It's my privilege. Though he believed the Biblical stories of Christs miracles, Strobel was less convinced miracles were happening today. Dr. Craig Keener holds the F.M. The fact that they can only produce two or three, with serious procedural and reporting issues, is strong evidence that this effect is non-existent. I could show you cases of arms growing back theoretically speaking and you would not believe it you would come up with natural explanations. I want to refer our listeners to your two volume series on miracles. I mean not that it was deliberately anti-supernatural, but it was deliberately non-supernatural. So if I'm dealing with historic, historiographic questions, historical reliability questions, I needed to deal with the issue of whether these kinds of things could happen. Now we move on to a video with Sean McDowell interviewing Craig Keener called Latest Evidence for Modern Miracles. And her hands had been curled up so much that every few months they had to uncurl her hands to get the dead skin out. She was healed just suddenly. Craig Keener: Greg Spencer is a case of this. Second thing she noticed was her hands were open. Synder's miraculous healing, which unfolded more than 30 years ago, was apparently so shocking that even her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical turn-around. Converted to Pelican theme by Brian Blais. Done! episode: Is there medical evidence for miracles? Scott Rae: That's staggering to think about. Is it possible that there was MS and something else, in which case looking for a full recovery from MS is misdirected? It's not something to feel badly about. A document going through these particular medical statements with citations can be found here. Synder's miraculous healing , which unfolded more than 30 years ago, was apparently so shocking that even her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical . 2021 - All rights reserved. And then some months later war came to her hometown in [inaudible] and she had to flee again. This goes a long way of establishing (or not) a causal link. This is like the difference between theists asking skeptics to explain how the disciples ate fish with Jesus, when in reality what we have to explain is that we have a text that has a story where the disciples ate fish with Jesus. So her initial eyesight is 7/200, quite poor. Reserve today is in a position to attract a broad range of outstanding She talked about when here daughter Terese was two years old that she cried out that she had been bitten by a snake and by the time her mother had got to her she found her not breathing. This is totally expected on naturalism, but not expected under theism. In Craig Keener: Yeah, she came on a fiance visa, which unfortunately took a bit longer than it should have because by the time we finally made up our minds to get together 9/11 happened right when we were getting ready to send the materials in. Pharmaceutical companies don't complain about these steps, they just do the work. And then the book that tells the story of your relationship to your wife called Impossible Love. The institution that is referenced for the work is Global Medical Research Institute (GMRI) and the documentary about miracles referenced is Send Proof. If there's one thing I hope this film does for people that are inside of the Christian faith is that it makes them confident enough to go pray for sick people in impossible situations because that is a means to knowledge as well. Is it possible that there was MS and something else, in which case looking for a full recovery from MS is misdirected? If you enjoyed our conversation today, give us a rating on your podcast app. Couldn't the medical records have been earlier?) achievements during Snyders tenure include: Association of American Universities (AAU), Maltz Center donors, performers celebrate Phase II, School of Medicine graduate program information tabling event, Summer study abroad with CWRU faculty information session, New study reveals ketamine could be effective treatment for cocaine-use disorders, Get to know members of the National Pan-Hellenic Council at CWRU: Week 3, Begun with a $1 billion goal, it ultimately raised. At over 2 billion Christians, praying many times, if this was a real effect at the 1% level we'd expect millions of documented cases yearly -- certainly a large enough signal to experimentally verify. But Greg Spencer had been going blind due to macular degeneration. "Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. Can we come to any agreement here? God could choose methods that are not so easily confused with memory biases, measurement errors, and other distortions and it is suspicious that he doesn't operate that way. "And so that's kind of what prompted me to investigate this issue.". In my opinion this study represents a larger trend that I have discussed before clinical research going backwards in quality after higher quality studies yield negative results. And now she has a Masters degree from the seminary in Cameroon. She deteriorated over a period of many years, several operations, many hospitalizations," Strobel explained. To be charitable to Elijah's point, perhaps he's meaning that if you pray for someone yourself in an impossible situation and there is improvement, you can tell the difference between the fake and real miracle personally. This was in 1981 that this happened. I made a number of these errors in the episode, and I think it is because 1) the scientific papers (rightly) don't use names and 2) when the stories are told they don't cite their sources well and 3) I'm terrible with names. Sometimes running for their lives. Further, the world is complex and any given effect can have many different possible causes, especially if we are talking about biological systems. You can get a free, one-month trialhere. Scott Rae: So how did, how did she become a war refugee? None of these steps are taken in any of these cases. Each of those people are in the same position as the boy Elijah speaks about and will certainly attribute a God-given miracle to their healing. So, we know that at least 450 Christians began praying for her, because they wrote letters saying, 'We're praying for you.. Barbara Rook "Babs" Snyder is an American academic and president of the Association of American Universities. From the Send Proof film they admit that they can't publish Bruce Van Natta case because the accurate measurement of the length of intestine needed to verify the result we don't have the technology yet. Strobel, 66, is a former investigative journalist with the Chicago Tribune. Now you got to go work! It's always possible to ask for more (Couldn't more doctors have seen it? Nine out of ten with prayer is the meaning of replicable, so I don't know what he really is thinking when he says miracles are not replicable. My oldest grandson loves to run and is always racing ahead, scampering up hills and sliding down ravines faster than the rest. Untrustworthy Our Cultural Knowledge Crisis, [BONUS] The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self. Each of the cases we've looked at have failed several or all of these properties of good investigation, and should not be believed. Here's where consistency comes in and the desiderata of Jaynes. The deaf will hear. Barbara had a very severe case of multiple sclerosis. Meanwhile, her muscles were atrophied. Barbara would always declare, "I love this Bible study! Plus these were not from people who burned child witches or anything like that. He has a Ph.D. and M.A. Never miss a big news story again. It's not just about the priors, it's the fact that to be consistent, once you raise your prior for one sort of claim you're doing it for many others -- many claims that you probably don't want to accept. Craig Keener: Which is her first language. Lina refuses to let Kathy get any recognition and keeps her behind the scenes, taking all the singing credit for herself. Converted to Pelican theme by Brian Blais. He doesn't seem to understand the ways that people can fool themselves. You're an expert on the life and teachings of Paul. In principle I believed it, but I was questioning witnesses with kind of a skeptical approach to try to whittle away anything that wasn't necessarily accurate. There is nothing even close to an arm growing back. Exactly when this point is depends on considerations around prior probability. READ ALSO: Columbine Survivor's Powerful Lessons After Facing Terror. Craig Keener: Yeah, and by the time Yeah and eventually it was over a 1000. Brian: Essentially Shermer's complaint about prayer being done and nothing happening is part what you would have in any kind of controlled study because you would have the case looking at all prayer events and which ones had effects and which ones didn't, that's the basic thing they seem unable to even grasp that idea and it shows a certain unwillingness to actually try to find the truth and to rule out these actual alternatives. Thinking about the Snyder "miracle", I do wonder why in these cases there isn't much more extensive medical documentation? But Barbara Snyder, she had been dying from a severe form of Multiple Sclerosis. And the reason Usually people don't get medical documentation even when it's available. "To this day.". Scott Rae: Welcome to the podcast Think Biblically, Conversations on Faith and Culture. So we interviewed Antoinette Malumbay. Hey, thanks for listening. He encountered scores of healings and other claims of the miraculous along the way, but there was one case in particular that truly blew his mind: the case of Barbara Snyder. In this case, Shermer's argument is that there is a context (e.g. Hospitalizations, & quot ; Strobel explained Crisis, [ BONUS ] the Rise and Triumph of the Self! She actually had to have a breathing tube because even her diaphragm did n't work on its.. Christian ethics and dean of the faculty at Talbot School of Theology Yeah, and by the time Yeah eventually! 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