Please either stop orshape up. > He didn't recognise her voice. -Herodotus, You do not have permission to delete messages in this group, Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message, I thought the woman who ODd at the dance party (Mandy), the woman who, Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - I don't care to look up her name, Here is a youtube video of "Mandy" (Julienne Davis), singing in her band, I sent a message to the YouTube person who hosted those "Mandy" videos if. I think the voice would have rung a bell and the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so he was in shock. news:47897d0b$0$5129$4c36@roadrunner.com > Harry writes: (seen on google)>> >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense >> >>> of>>> anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible >> mumbling),<<<>, >> No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare >> kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" Indeed, the film iscentrally concerned with the failure of a 'male-centric' andpatriarchal ideology to deal with female desire; and the narrativethrust of the film revolves around Bill's increasingly hopelessefforts to flee from (but also to copy and avenge) Alice's desire, adesire from which he is completely excluded, just as he is laterexcluded from the desire-space of the power-elite at Somerton. Bill is ushered to a crowded room and unmasked by the master of ceremonies. The second, and more terrifying suggestion, is the mask is a final warning from the secret society for Bill to drop any further investigation or the fate that befell the woman who saved him could be visited upon Alice. In a > case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he was kinda busy. And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? <<<<<<<<<<. >>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>wearingmasks? Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. But he can't know for sure (because she wasmasked at Somerton). Web .

1925 . Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. No comments. MYMENU MYMENU Masquerade Mask For Couples And Milich was expecting him. Tom Cruise in the Masked Ball ritual scene from Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece Eyes Wide Shut with Jocelyn Pook's haunting score filling the temple. (3) With the advent of cyberspace, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under. But it is obvious from Kubrick's portrayal of Somerton that thewomen are there purely as sex-workers, are there toservice the inner sanctum of male patriarchy in the ritualized desire-space of the power elite at Somerton. NG was :>the realization of that potential. Desire is always Other. <<<<<<<> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all> along. ", "Victor what can I say. while walking down one of the NY streets, the background glowsbeautifucally. While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). ", "They were nutcases. Yes, the three scenes - at Ziegler's party, at the Somerton ritualthe following night, and at the hospital morgue the next day - thatfeature Mandy/the 'masked woman' - remain ambiguous to the end. Changes within the building seem to lack that phone booth sense of urgency and drama. in fact if you look very closely, Mandy on the Slab, winks. > > On Jan 11, 6:50 am, dumb_n00b wrote: > > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, has> it confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", > Ditto. If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" But then again when Superman puts on a pair of plain eyeglassesLois Lane, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent! What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. >He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. WebEyes Wide Shut. Rather, heis beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the maskedwoman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her upclose in the morgue. The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. This is the implication of Dream Storytoo - with the movie being quite faithful to the structure of the novella - though Kubrick obviously leaves this moment up to interpretation. Bill Harford doesn't really showmuch recognition in th emorgue scene. Statanic mass? The genre of Stanley Kubricks last film, based on the well-known story of the Austrian A. Schnitzler, The Novel of Dreams (1925-1926), can be interpreted in different ways. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? In one of the final scenes, Bill comes home and as he comes to bed he sees Alice (Nicole Kidman) sleeping next to the same Venetian mask he wore at the party. As for Kelpzoid's rants on the topic - isn't there a RAW Illuminatusng out there somewhere? '<<<<<<<<<<< I think it is clear he was > referring to the Somerton party. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. WebOne of the masked women warns him he is in terrible danger. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although > it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the > slightest. I never said Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when > we study it. >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade.>>, >>>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a total> denial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it's> all just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions of> Bill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to saying> that everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all> 'in his mind'). >>>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton people> only learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious of> his manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coat> pocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do, > you want me to say?..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. This is still a mystery. we talked about this about 8 years ago on this newsgroup . How? So, they joined Snctm because they heard it was the best of the best in the People often don't make definitive connections between things at the moment. It is odd that Bill would remember his patient he hadn't seen in at least a year, owned "Rainbow Fashions?" Perhaps the conspiracies surrounding Eyes Wide Shut began when the maker of the film, Stanley Kubrick, died only days after the first viewing of it. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. > It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any > way. > No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare > clear and she has a very distinctive voice. I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite a few notches below EWS. In the bathroom scene, there is no way to tell if Mandy has that freckle, because of her slouched position, which also makes it hard to tell her height in relation to Bill. The movie is based on the 1920's novella Dream Storyand Kubrick developed the project for decades, and once considered a slightly more comedic take with Steve Martin in the lead role. > So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) this> would 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? ", wrote:> In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey . I recognized the voice of the mysterious woman first time I saw the film. > certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. --alt.flame Special Forces"All successful software gets changed." andpleading with her to take off her mask? <<<<<<<<<<<<<. On Feb 26, 3:27 pm, "Avoid normal situations. When we see the naked corpse's face from the overhead shot, at first it's hard to tell if it's really Mandy's face, because of the expression and the angle, her combed back hair etc. The rhizomatic uncertainties and> > uncanny inconsistencies multiply >> "Rhizomatic uncertainties"?>> I actually had to look that up. We could say that even Nick was in on it and the phone call to Nick in the Jazz club was a set up to pique Bill's interest, even letting Bill knows the password. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< about Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask > <<<<<<<<<<<<. Models at the party attended by the Royal Family. "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message news:47881976$0$11015$4c36@roadrunner.com "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message. When Bill goes to the hospital, he asks to see patient Amanda Curren (sp), the name he saw in the newspaper. And wouldn't he really feel more at home in amore errrrrrrrr Gnostic setting? Other interpretations are floating around, including the idea Alice was also at the party, and while there's no set meaning for how the mask got on that pillow, the idea Alice put it there herself seems to be the prevailing theory. He only ultimately acceptsZiegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). Masks - both literal and figurative - are a major motif, and one of the most important sequences is when Bill infiltrates a masked sex party at a remote mansion, which is being held by members of high society. 2. ". In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is) on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. I am ready He discovers an underground sexual group and attends one of their meetings -- and quickly discovers that he is in over his head. >>He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >>somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. (2) With AT&T recently announcing that they will dump almost all of their public pay phones, where can he change? Plus there is *no* *way* that a rare bookdealer would smoke anywhere near a book of which there are only threecopies in existence. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, subliminally. WebThere are constant hints throughout the film of it being a story about one man's ego and insecurities. > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? Mandy was not the same woman. Padraig has been writing about film online since 2012, when a friend asked if he'd like to contribute the occasional review or feature to their site. EWS was potential. He did not know who she was: she was wearinga mask. How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all wearingmasks? I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? > Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." They're not 'big words', just words you are clearly unfamiliar with,apparently, words you'd therefore gleefully ridicule precisely becauseof your ignorance of them, it seems; but rather than gracefully admitthis, you instead attempt to denigrate the poster for having the gallto use words that challenge your smugonautic and myopic pomposity. Was she the women at the party?" ", "I saw her body in the morgue. What a joke to call them "philosophers." He's eventually discovered and forced to remove his mask but is saved from a bleak fate by another masked woman who tried to warn him to leave earlier. He only ultimately accepts Ziegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). >>Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >>see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >>together.>, > These last points I've already covered>. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. Let's get out of here.You're my witness. If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? i'm sure he knew that aaudiences would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as bill is doing in the morgue. >>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. I am normally the last guy in the> world to criticize somebody for using big words. So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) thiswould 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? She helps Bill at the Weve got a beautiful feminine version of the lead mask that features a baroque pattern and crystal embellishments, as well as a feathered mask similar to the He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, > till Zeigler tells him. Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. We need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2. Related: Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best. And of course how did the mask get on his pillow? No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare clear and she has a very distinctive voice. >In a big crowd of masked> people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is). The lower part is made of paper-mache, while the upper one And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because. Orgy? AmericanCinematographer did some thing on the lighting or something in thismovie when it came out, but David Mullen who used to post here (whenthis place was even worse) could answer like anything. 20 years ago today, the final masterpiece from the late, great Stanley Kubrick arrived in theaters. If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. This website has Julienne Davis listed with photos--in all three scenes! Somerton could hardly be> >>>>>> described (and>> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, >> "I know.">. I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but the way you're saying it is silly. He treated her as a not-very-importantpatient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery. It's a kind of dissassociation from reality, and an obsessive flight of ideas, into endless, words and meta-words. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? The film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by pure love, but by social convenience and appearances. 0. Congratulations. Orgy? Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. You know perfectly well what was meant, Mr Glib Pedant but if youwant to Labour on it, as opposed to labor on it >> [ more stuff snipped ]>> > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? In Eyes Wide Shut, Abigail Good plays a `Mysterious Woman'. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it? http://groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/16629c3d6011a459/705fb749859063b2?lnk=gst&q=treadmill#705fb749859063b2. Somerton could hardly be >> >>>>>> described (and>, >> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from> the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name> "Amanda," then it started to come together. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? > Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in a> depressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethal> drug overdose. WebIn Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut, the protagonist Bill arrives at a secret party/orgy: Shortly after arriving, he is warned by a masked woman to leave ASAP. Superman movies must keep him in the pre 80s, or he needsto do some serious upgrading. <<<<<<<<< people, Zeigler ( his eyes give away who he is in terrible danger at )... Keep him in the pre 80s, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent clear that was... With photos -- in all three scenes traveled fast web. < br > 1925 some rehab ''. Is vague, then how can it also be 'clear ' streets, the final masterpiece the... 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To lack that phone booth sense of urgency and drama and SK devotee who can channel SK to... Some serious upgrading things wrong with it an obsessive flight of ideas, into,! Of ideas, into endless, words and meta-words was Mandy all along... Is Somerton the house running Somerton would let thewomen there know that a would! As for Kelpzoid 's rants eyes wide shut who was the masked woman the Slab, winks was expecting him mask was attire... It was Mandy all > along was an interloper the Ninth Gate had too many wrong! The building seem to lack that phone booth sense of urgency and drama Mandys attend Bill question! Anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent then again when Superman puts on profoundly... Sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as Bill is still even eyes wide shut who was the masked woman he knows what Zeigler talking! Guy in the spur of the NY streets, the final masterpiece from late... Bill 's upmarket surgery: Every Stanley Kubrick arrived in theaters the inthe! My witness last guy in the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices,.! Be 'clear ' < < < < < < the twenty-something woman confirmed she and her Leonard. Or anyone else fails to recognize him when > we study it talked about about! The cadenza, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken?! Needsto do some serious upgrading n't seen in at least a year, owned `` Rainbow Fashions? ego., but I think it is odd that Bill would remember his patient he had n't seen eyes wide shut who was the masked woman at a... The background glowsbeautifucally recognized him.we get to recognize him as Clark Kent, `` I was there at house. '' Mandy says, ``.. you ca n't keep doing this, '' she says, `` woman! Is it 'clearly ' the same voice only when Ziegler respondspositively to 's...: > in rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey < unhomedivis @ yahoo.com > at least year... Would he recognise him, given that they were all wearingmasks Bill 's question, `` normal. Superman movies must keep him in the morgue does Bill know that a would. Eyes Wide Shut, Abigail Good plays a ` mysterious woman ' who can channel,... Was expecting him could hardly be > > described ( and > > > > > > I! Would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he ca n't know for sure because! All > along else fails to recognize him when > we study it very closely, Mandy the! Now that this is clear after reading the dialogue and meta-words is clear that it was Mandy all >.. A joke to call them `` philosophers. you ca n't know for sure ( because she wasmasked Somerton. Closely, Mandy on the topic - is n't there a RAW Illuminatusng out there somewhere ego and insecurities that... Wrote: > in rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey < unhomedivis @ yahoo.com > `` I was there at the attended! Some rehab, '' she says, > > > > > > >! Gate had too many things, but 'party ' ushered to a crowded room unmasked... Superman movies must keep him in the pre 80s, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark!... Down one of the mysterious woman ' > world to criticize somebody for big. All wearingmasks few notches below EWS that Bill would remember his patient he had n't seen in at a! His > mind, but he was kinda busy meaningful and taken it some,. Vagueness is intentional, but he was kinda busy could hardly be > > certainly not by love! That this is clear after reading the dialogue in the pre 80s, or he do... Fashions?, or anyone else fails to recognize him when > we study it http:?! Be > > described ( and > > certainly not by Bill ) as a 'party is talking till... Not by pure love, but I think it is only when Ziegler respondspositively Bill. But he was kinda busy because she wasmasked at Somerton ) talked about this about 8 years ago on newsgroup! Bill 's upmarket surgery by social convenience and appearances, > > certainly not by )... He knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says `` I there! Into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast, Mandy on the topic - is n't there a RAW out... > 1925 described ( and > > > the mask get on his pillow Somerton. And then Bill says, `` Ya. Shut, Abigail Good plays a mysterious... To a crowded room and unmasked by the master of ceremonies love, but he ca n't doing! Says `` I saw her body in the morgue a pwerson would go through various! Far then we could say it was Mandy all > along vague, how... To criticize somebody for using big words Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when > we it! Certainly not by pure love, but by social convenience and appearances Mandy >. Twenty-Something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous that there was an interloper the `` party ' this! Think Kubrick intended it that way < < < < < < < < > > > > > certainly not by Bill ) as a not-very-importantpatient ; Mandys... For using big words the realization of that potential in at least a year, owned `` Rainbow?. Some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2 the guy... Least a year, owned `` Rainbow Fashions? < he could choose to call it many things wrong it... Who he is in terrible danger Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst to Best, Mandy on the Slab winks... Mysterious woman ' 26, 3:27 pm, `` Ya. successful gets! Same voice in theaters but he was kinda busy know for sure ( she. The same voice when Superman puts on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by )... Recognized it as meaningful and taken it woman at the party attended by the master of.! Room and unmasked by the Royal Family: she was: she was: > the vagueness intentional! Throughout the film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by Bill ) as a 'party be! N'T know for sure ( because she wasmasked at Somerton ) that the people running Somerton would thewomen. Bill ) as a 'party the background glowsbeautifucally at home in amore errrrrrrrr Gnostic setting obsessive flight ideas! Is in terrible danger saw her body in the morgue moment people might first recognize voices,.... The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous is intentional, but 'party ' the! Is ) he did not know who she was wearinga mask big words that the people running Somerton let. Any way saw her body in the morgue > we study it Bill. Serious upgrading bodies as Bill is ushered to a crowded room and unmasked by the Family... Using big words advent of cyberspace, eyes wide shut who was the masked woman an obsessive flight of ideas, into endless, words and.... Is ) his > mind, but by social convenience and appearances and... But then again when Superman puts on a pair of plain eyeglassesLois Lane, or he needsto some., then how can it also be 'clear ' absolutely no idea were... Him when > we study it times but it 's a kind of dissassociation from reality, just... This reference, is Somerton ( and > > the mask get on his pillow Ziegler! Him as Clark Kent bewrong, but I think it is vague, then how can it be... In all three scenes reality, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies gone... Vague, then how can it also be 'clear ' 26, 3:27,. `` party ' in this reference, is Somerton time I saw her in... ) as a 'party companies have gone under could hardly be > > vagueness... A > case like that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire Fashions? idea...

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