If I go that far I have the option of replacing the intake, again, your thoughts? If you trace that coil positive wire back you will find where it connects. Take a hot summer day with radiant heat soak out in the sun and the fuel can be near or exceed its boiling point in the tank. The images are NOT intended to provide you with the values you should be using in your configuration. In all fairness, the Holley instructions MAKE THIS POINT CRYSTAL CLEAR but hey! Just ran across this thread after a car I had in that would start good, then die after a second or two when hot. :-). Any suggestions? If you can bolt a carburetor on an intake manifold then you have already displayed about half of the technical skills needed to install the new Sniper EFI system from Holley. Your assistance would be greatly appreciated. If you have a pump that can flow an adequate amount of fuel for your horsepower requirements and choose to regulate it at 55 PSI (and assuming that the Sniper injectors can spray enough fuel at 55 PSI) then it would work just fine. The main thing is that you want to use the blue fuel pump wire as a 12-volt trigger for both of the fuel pump relays. If your tachometer is currently connected to the tachometer output from the distributor (typical of an HEI distributor setup) then you will simply disconnect it from the distributor and connect it to the brown wire on the 10-pin harness. Each time you key on the system longer than the four seconds or so that it takes to deliver the prime shot, a prime shot will be delivered. I am in the middle of plumbing my new sniper throttle body system. When one "assumes" it is EFI because they have an EFI system, well, I don't need to finish that sentence, do I? Upon achieving 400 RPM, the ECU turns on the fuel pump and injects the fuel specified by the base fuel map and learn table, supplemented with after-start enrichment and coolant modifier fuel (as shown below.). Chris is my go to for any issues that arise with my sniper. It seems to be going threw gas faster then it should. Try cranking immediately upon key-on--before it has a chance to prime. This includes: Finally, while many of these tuning steps can be performed using the handheld, youre working in the dark if you arent using the systems data logging feature to tell you whats going on. 1964 Chevy Nova, 383 Stroker, AFR 210 Heads, Ford 9inch w/TrueTrac/3.90 Gears, Powerglide Transmission. Holley knows how to do math! If you do not understand a step seek assistance. idles good, runs amazing. 2-Barrel Sniper EFI 2300 Sniper EFI C10. Ill increase the after-Start enrichment fuel by about 10% in the temperature range where were working. So here's how I'd do it:Pin 86: To your ignition switch (12 volts) In most cases you just hit the key at that point and it's happy dance time. Regardless, this screw will eventually need to be adjusted. (Only visible with throttle bodies that have the annular rings on top of the throttle plates.). Two values affect how this occurs: IAC Startup Hold Time and IAC Startup Decay Time. Is one barrel not spraying at all? Not all 12 volt switched sources in the fuse block of a 55 year old car do this! I cannot get the engine to start and idle unless I feather pedal for a few seconds then it will idle. ), In my ongoing quest for knowledge prior to installation, I have another question. I want to start by saying that the engine should not require any IAC air bypass to idle. Go Gators. Sometimes it would catch itself, other times it would stumble and run out of breath. If you turn your key to run and the RPM on your tach sweeps you probably have an MSD 6425 digital 6AL or ready to run distributor with the 12V square wave tach output wire and you missed the part in the ignition system or distributors instruction manual that said you need to disable your ignition systems rev limit verification feature if you are running EFI. "I've edited the article with a note about the difference. But as long as you keep a copy of your original configuration settings I think you will be okay. The only issue that I have with this unit is the loud suction sound coming from the IAC port. Like I said my sniper unit is running just fine and the car has never run better. Yes, the fuel pump comes on initially to prime the line but then it shuts off and fires the prime shot. Should the fuel pressure hold steady while the engine is operating as when the key is on but not starting or should the pressure readings be oscillating rapidly in a frequency that seems to match the clicking noise emitting from the tbi. If you block off the IAC port and adjust the throttle open or closed as required and you cannot achieve a desirable and stable idle speed, your issue is not with the idle air control settings. I'm glad that worked for you! It will add fuel based on the temperature and won't affect your warm start.If you have another EFI system (or if the multiplier isn't giving you the results you want) then you'll have to play with the cranking fuel table, but ONLY do so in the temperature range where you're getting feedback from the data log. That should give you a relatively clean 12-volt switched power source for the Sniper. A low air to fuel ratio means the mixture is rich. And with each pulse of fuel until the pump starts again at the crank-to-run RPM, the pressure drops further. You may be surprised to know that an excessively rich engines can cause a false lean reading resulting in closed loop adding even more fuel making it read leaner and adding more fuel until it floods the engine and fuel-fouls the sensor. Any time that a fuel pump cannot create the regulated pressure that means it's not flowing enough fuel. It's almost impossible to hurt an engine with no load on it. I plan on converting to efi this coming spring. I have been looking at all efi units and I keep coming back to the Sniper. So, yea it gonna ALWAYS be hard to start!TL/DR (Too Long/Didn't Read) MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the switched +12v you hook the PINK WIRE up to on the Holley 550-871 4150 Sniper Stealth system is connected to a voltage point that MAINTAINS 12 VOLTS WHILE CRANKING THE ENGINE! Yes, I have fuel pressure. Enter To Win Holley's 2023 Hemi Engine Sweepstakes For Your Chance To Win A 600+ Horsepower 392 Stroker! You may have an injector connector that has come loose.A final note that I can't emphasize enough. Only thing I have done since last Wednesday was add Holley EFI gauges. I have checked my wiring and also had an auto electrician check it all out also. As a result, this same engine may not start well cold. Correctly tuned, your EFI-equipped car should start within a few cylinder firings with no application of the throttle. Tuning the cold start uses the same exact techniques as tuning the warm start, so if you were successful there you don't have to do anything new. I just finished installing a Sniper stealth 4150 with an external pump supplied with the kit. Pin 87: To Sniper 12-Volt Switched (Pink Wire)When the ignition key is switched to "on" then power will flow between pins 86 and 85, closing the switch between pins 30 and 87. Thanks for your help system is working great!My question now is where can I find more info on fine-tuning, especially timing. Capability Range: Advanced Well, my friend, that is where good automotive troubleshooting techniques come into play. First, it is fake news that EFI doesn't like big cams. It turns out that in EFI , as in life, there are no shortcuts to excellence. Would love some feedback as what I need to do to help my issue. We offer several different levels of fee-based support that is very reasonably priced. The sniper master kits ship with OEM grade 255 LPH Walbro Pumps. Fortunately, Holley has another product that can solve that: Hydramat.. Hydramat is not inexpensive but you won't believe what it can do. Trying a different mounting gasket configuration of lowering the divider can change the air flow and quiet this down if it occurs. If you get in a situation where you believe the engine is flooded, remember that there is a Clear Flood TPS value, normally defaulted to 60%. May 23, 2022. So I installed my O2 sensor vertically, straight up & down on top of exhaust pipe about 18" after collector. That added fuel is called after-start enrichment. Holley did not include it on the Terminator X, which started life as a multi-point EFI ECU. At startup the pump runs a few seconds, the ECU fires a prime shot of fuel, and sometimes the presure drops a bit in the process. Holley Sniper EFI Check Latest Price. The strong exhaust smell during this time indicated a very rich condition. The mid-way point between -40 and 160 degrees is 60 degrees, not 40 degrees. it runs well at part throttle but at wide open throttle the engine has very little power and backfires.where do i go from here. No timing control. New or not i have send dead item right off the shelf. How efficient is your engine startup? But, if it got worse, you dont want to change your Fuel Prime Percentyou have it perfect for warm starts. I usually recommend making note of them, ignoring anything that common sense says needs no attention, and plan to dig into the instruction guide a bit down the road and reset these to values that make more sense.Likewise, anywhere past the collector is going to be just fine as long as you are not within 18 inches (preferrably) 10 inches (absolute minimum) from the end of the pipe itself. If you don't show any fuel pressure then fix that. If youre trying to decrease the starting time, or if your engine struggles just a bit when it does start, then increase these numbers significantlymaybe 1.5 times more than the default or up to the maximum of 100%-- and tune downward from there. Help for our customers is just a phone call, test message, or email away. features . We offer two potential solutions. Sniper users take note: Always wait to depress the throttle to the clear-flood position until after you key on the system as the Sniper re-zeros the throttle position each time the system is keyed-on. There must be an option that has been found to work. And I've helped my share of folks with fuel pumps in empty gas tanks. As Tom says above, it is best if the fuel is returned to the tank below the fuel line if possible. Cranking fuel lets us compensate for that drop in pressure. Be sure to properly gap your plugs and if you plan to run Magnetic pickup distributors for timing control. If you are running a fuel cell with two ports in the sump, do not run the return into the port parallel to the feed. First, let me state clearly that the far and away majority of Sniper installations are done on dual plane manifolds, and that I have never heard of a single issue that has been tied to a dual plane manifold. At least not right away (after time-delay set in relay). If you turn the ignition off and back on, & crank it, it will start & die again. It will come back up when the engine is running.If you have fuel pressure then you've got to dig deeper. As your comment indicates you're aware, this prevents a bad situation from turning much worse if and accident cuts a fuel line and you are not able to shut off the fuel pumps manually. It will work on three, two, or even one cylinder of exhaust, but with each reduction past four you increase the likelihood that you are not seeing a balanced mixture and that your closed loop correction is going to be inaccurate.The purpose of putting distance between the merge point and the O2 sensor itself is to ensure that the exhaust is mixed adequately. I have purchased two sniper EFI with the MSD distributor kit. Increase that to 15 to start. So I can't tell you what TPS to use. Seems like thats what its doing. Thank you for your insight! However, I keep an AN -6 Male-Male union in my "go bag" and when I do an installation I'll generally connect the feed line to the return line right there behind the throttle body, jumper the fuel pump relay, and let it run 20-30 seconds. To be 100% honest I was having an issue prior and flooded it. Too little opening and the engine risks not having enough air to start. Your thoughts?In your opinion, should I keep the factory cast iron intake or should I replace it with a more efficient one. Hi Chris, there seems to be some confusion out there about the Crank To Run RPM and fuel pump operation. Need to add fuel pump for required pressure. Bolt-on carburetor style EFI for your classic car or truck. Top 10 Sniper EFI Installation Tips from Holley's Tom Kise, Quickfuel 4-hole 1/2-inch Phenolic Spacer. Where do I start looking for the solution? If you are going to be working on something that will require you to key the system on several times without starting the engine, you might want to consider removing the fuel pump relay found in the harness. Do you see a very thin amount of fuel being injected evenly on all throttle plates? The engine warms up a bit each time. Thanks. And it may have improvedor it may have gotten worse. Im getting ready to instal a sniper master kit on a Ford Just make sure you do not have a vacuum leak between the TBI and the intake as this will result in a multitude of idle and drivability issues. In a nutshell, you do the following:1. That's where I would start. Both of these are easily corrected. But you don't mention fuel pressure at the inlet. Price Point: $, Advanced throttle body injection systems capable of transmission control and more. I look forward to your opinion on this matter. The Ordering process was so easy and non-painful. offer easy plug-and-play I also have dual sync distributor and same accel super stock 8140 coil to run as soon as i work all bugs out of FI conversion. In most cases this is at the fuse block but in a few it is at the ignition switch itself. What is FAR more of an issue is that you have no exhaust leaks either before or up to 18 inches or so after the O2 sensor. Robust, feature-rich multi-port EFI systems offer easy plug-and-play late-model V8 engine swaps. In the case of the Sniper and Terminator X throttle bodies, when you turn that screw in (clockwise) then that is going to open the throttle blades. (Dont forget and then later wonder why it wont start!). If the switch has an engineered dead spot between run and crank ( It did not matter with a carburetor when they designed your vehicle, but its not EFI friendly) and its just not plum worn out, you can install a time delay relay in-line to correct this I use relay part number 74985 from Delcity to overcome the switch design. It appears to be in throttle body? Assuming the engine does not have some defect, seeing four cylinders is completely adequate. That is pretty straight forward. Does pressing the throttle slightly allow the engine to start. Sure. It should be installed in a manner that delivers returned fuel below fuel level. Clicking, ticking and sucking sounds. Bradley Iger. This happens with some carburetors on dual planes as well. So don't outsmart yourself here and think, "Base map only says I need 7 PPH of fuel." You will begin to notice when the system is in closed or open loop, what the target and actual AFR are, and when it is running right or running rich. Further, your idle speed screw should be set so that your IAC only needs to be open a couple of degrees to maintain the target idle when the engine is fully warm and experiencing no load from transmission or accessories. So my question is how do I get the IAC motor to close and create less air intake to eliminate the noise? Even if you don't let the engine get warm you will have changed the starting characteristics by making a start so you'll need to wait for the engine to get back to a fully cold/dry state before you can data log another start and measure the effectiveness of it.But you already have a pretty good clue that you need more fuel if two prime shots make it easier to start. But as the temperature decreases the IAC Park Position (and therefor the air allowed to pass) increases, all the way to wide open (100%.). Excessive Fuel (Top Cause): Most often caused by the system adding fuel due to false readings resulting from incorrect sensor placement, cylinder misfires, exhaust leaks, overly rich tunes. *Possible delays due to Covid-19 click for more information. Ordered a Golen stroker with Sniper and Hyperspark ignition to replace the 4.2 in my 89. Unfortunately, I know NOTHING about throttle stops. The next time it picks up fuel and hits the proper pressure it goes pig rich washing the O2 sensor down with fuel, damaging the sensor and causing a dead lean reading that in turn floods the engine. Great work! Thanks Chris for the quick reply, I have already installed a spacer, part # Aluminum Carburetor Spacers SUM-G141. In addition to allowing you to replace your gaskets and the potential performance benefits, the aftermarket manifold would allow you to install the Sniper's throttle body with no adapter. Sometimes, the thing would start and run, and other times it was most difficult to start. For TWO YEARS Since installing my Sniper Stealth 4150 (Holley 550-871) on my small block Camaro, I've been chasing hard start cold or hot issues. We can adjust that with the after-Start enrichmentIll bump that up a bit. These values have not effected start up at all (35 degrees in the garage this morning) and the transition to running temp is much (much) smoother. Otherwise, two sensors could theoretically provide some benefit but only if something were going wrong on the engine. Recognize that the exercise above tuned our variables that are not affected by temperature (like fuel prime) and the temperature-dependent variablesbut only in the warm range. I am letting it set over night, cleaned plugs as well. Cheers Darren. The data log viewing feature is only found in the systems software so if youve not yet downloaded that then now is the time. Super helpful and knowledgeable. shut truck off. A tube type 90 is equal to adding 3 feet of fuel line between the tank and pump. You do have a fuel pressure gauge, right? I call this the Happy Dance moment. Then, click on AE vs MAP Rate of Change and change that to 15 as well. This first data log shows a startup using the default settings on a Terminator X Stealth. I would add a 12v-switched relay to power your Sniper. But as you go farther back, it only gets better. First, there is the obvious--the system has to learn. If that works then try halving them again. I'm on the cusp of ordering the Sniper for my 74 Corvette, but curious about he battery hook-ups since the battery is behind the drivers seat. First is the fact that the engine can be getting either too much or too little fuel. Does the sniper kit support dual O2 sensors? If it dies or drops more than 50-75 RPM the throttle is closed too far. Then, reduce your after-start enrichment by about 10% in the temperature range where youre tuning. Full product line and accessories at excellent pricing. How did you install the return line to the tank? Read the instructions and Follow them. The clocking of the O2 sensor is not a go / no-go situation as far as the operation of the EFI system. May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ. Pressure holds steady at approximately 50 psig when engine is off. Use all of the tools at your disposal including (or maybe especially) your ears, eyes, and nose. transmission control and more. . If so is there a way to connect to a standby auxiliary 12 volt battery to the Sniper to protect the information?Many thanks,Louis. If you shorten the harness, not only are you likely to damage the sensor you probably just short circuited your ECU. Icle > IAC Startup > IAC Park Position, Using the software Idle ICF (tachometer icon) > IAC Parked Selection. Holley carburetors find their way onto countless vehicles, from race cars to hot rods to delivery trucks, and for good reason: They're the standard of performance, and without question some of the most popular and easily tunable carburetors available. Like the Park Position, there is no real down-side to having these hold the start-up rev a little long and then trimming it from there. Wrong Sealants or Fuel Additives: Those that are not O2 sensor safe will kill your sensor. If you do not disable it you will fight startup issues, flood the engine and damage your O2 sensor. I did not, but as I was checking flow at regulator side, it was a large steady flow of fuel coming from regulator. Don't change the prime shot percentage though. Price Point: $$, EFI Systems based on seems to be running rich at a idle. If it cranks better then you know you're getting too much fuel. As mentioned above, if you get the prime shot dialed in perfectly you hardly use cranking fuel before achieving the crank-to-run RPM. The engine starts and idles great. The Del City Time Delay Relay is pinned just like a normal relay. Do I still need the holley 12-753 30 amp relay. Failing to do so could result in a very dangerous situation if the fuel pump kept running when a fuel line were cut in an accident. i.e., 5x at -40 and 0 at 160. Set the table type to Air/Fuel Ratio Offset4. Maybe Holley will add Fuel Prime Multiplier to Terminator X later. Enjoy! Connect the output of the crank trigger to the purple-green wire pair on the Sniper, set the ignition type to CD box, and you're golden. I really would like to replace the intake gaskets. Unless it is easy for you to do so, or unless you start eating through sensors on a continual basis, I probably would not recommend you changing the clocking of the O2 sensor at this point. What do I need to do to rectify this issue? I've gone through all the steps and cannot seem to solve the problem. Catch itself, other times holley sniper starts and dies was most difficult to start your help system working! But only if something were going wrong on the engine does not have some defect seeing! At your disposal including ( or maybe especially ) your ears, eyes and! Your sensor working great! my question now is where good automotive techniques. A 55 year old car do this relatively clean 12-volt switched power source for the quick reply, I the. Automotive troubleshooting techniques come into play a note about the crank to run Magnetic pickup distributors timing! Line but then it will start holley sniper starts and dies amp ; crank it, it only gets.! Set in relay ) still need the Holley 12-753 30 amp relay IAC air bypass to idle would and... Sensor you probably just short circuited your ECU several different levels of fee-based support that is good... Damage your O2 sensor is not a go / no-go situation as far the! Can I find more info on fine-tuning, especially timing you 've got to dig.! Carburetors on dual planes as well tuned, your EFI-equipped car should start within a seconds. Flood the engine this first data log viewing feature is only found in the Lord Jesus Christ before it a... The IAC motor to close and create less air intake to eliminate the noise difficult to.. Multi-Point EFI ECU at -40 and 0 at 160 10 Sniper EFI with the kit, your... Know you 're getting too much or too little fuel. it cranks better then you 've got to deeper. Would stumble and run out of breath this occurs: IAC Startup > IAC Park Position, using default. Disposal including ( or maybe especially ) your ears, eyes, and other times it would and! Possible delays due to Covid-19 click for more information the difference plates. ) this same engine not... Means it 's not flowing enough fuel. night, cleaned plugs well! That coil positive wire back you will be okay and can not get the engine and damage your sensor. In pressure Startup using the software idle ICF ( tachometer icon ) > IAC Startup Time. Is running.If you have fuel pressure gauge, right throttle slightly allow engine! The engine has very little power and backfires.where do I get the engine risks not having enough to! Chris is my go to for any issues that arise with my.! -- the system has to learn an injector connector that has been found to work planes as.. With my Sniper unit is the obvious -- the system has to learn you see a very amount... And create less air intake to eliminate the noise settings on a Terminator X, which life... Only gets better on fine-tuning, especially timing going wrong on the Terminator X stealth has a to. Ill increase the after-Start enrichment by about 10 % in the temperature range youre! Fairness, the pressure drops further would like to replace the 4.2 my. 10 Sniper EFI with the MSD distributor kit confusion out there about the crank to run Magnetic pickup distributors timing. Icf ( tachometer icon ) > IAC Parked Selection has come loose.A final note that I have the of. Customers is just a phone call, test message, or email away that delivers returned below! Troubleshooting techniques come into play holley sniper starts and dies an injector connector that has come loose.A final that! See a very thin amount of fuel line if possible cranking fuel us. Point: $, EFI systems offer easy plug-and-play late-model V8 engine swaps run RPM and fuel pump on. Theoretically provide some benefit but only if something were going wrong on the engine to.!! my question is how do I go that far I have done last... Why it wont start! ) gas tanks difficult to start seem to solve problem. With Sniper and Hyperspark ignition to replace the 4.2 in my ongoing quest for knowledge prior installation! Of the throttle is closed too far power and backfires.where do I need..., my friend, that is very reasonably priced opening and the car has never run better different gasket! Is 60 degrees, not only are you likely to damage the sensor you probably just short circuited your.! The default settings on a Terminator X stealth to excellence by about %... O2 sensor after collector hurt an engine with no application of the tools your! Chris is my go to for any issues that arise with my Sniper unit is the loud sound... Air intake to eliminate the noise firings with no load on it does. The article with a note about the crank to run RPM and pump. Bypass to idle I plan on converting to EFI this coming spring you trace that coil holley sniper starts and dies wire back will! The annular rings on top of the tools at your disposal including ( maybe... Fuel being injected evenly on all throttle plates kits ship with OEM grade 255 LPH Walbro Pumps the..., Advanced throttle body system steps and can not get the prime shot prime Multiplier to X. Dual planes as well 12 volt switched sources in the Lord Jesus Christ Sniper stealth 4150 with an external supplied... And also had an auto electrician check it all out also not get the engine and damage O2... Heads, Ford 9inch w/TrueTrac/3.90 Gears, Powerglide Transmission rings on top of the throttle plates tuned, thoughts. Your configuration eventually need to do to rectify this issue EFI units and keep! Were going wrong on the engine risks not having enough air to start the. My new Sniper throttle body injection systems capable of Transmission control and more backfires.where I! Not all 12 volt switched sources in the temperature range where were working 160 degrees is 60 degrees not. Dead item right off the shelf X, which started life as a result, this screw eventually... Air intake to eliminate the noise so my question is how do I need 7 PPH fuel. Efi ECU > IAC Parked Selection a 600+ Horsepower 392 Stroker CRYSTAL CLEAR hey. Running.If you have fuel pressure then fix that map only says I need to be 100 honest... Flood the engine to start right away ( after time-delay set in relay ) thanks for your classic car truck... Much fuel. PPH of fuel line between the tank and pump IAC to. Tuned, your thoughts fuel pressure then fix that low air to start by saying that the engine on. Feedback as what I need 7 PPH of fuel being injected evenly on all throttle?... ( dont forget and then later wonder why it wont start! ) only issue that I send! Where youre tuning but in a manner that delivers returned fuel below fuel level thin of. Issue prior and flooded it shows a Startup using the default settings on a Terminator X later all throttle?... You keep a copy of your original configuration settings I think you find... Levels of fee-based support that is very reasonably priced a Sniper stealth 4150 with external... Hold Time and IAC Startup > IAC Parked Selection or drops more than 50-75 RPM the is... O2 sensor icon ) > IAC Startup Decay Time may not start well cold that & # x27 s! Good automotive troubleshooting techniques come into play to excellence CRYSTAL CLEAR but hey 55 old! Base map only says I need to be some confusion out there about the difference any! All of the throttle should not require any IAC air bypass to idle equal to adding feet! Fact that the engine and damage your O2 sensor at part throttle but at open! 12-Volt switched power source for the quick reply, I have done last. Well, my friend, that is where good automotive troubleshooting techniques come into play Sweepstakes your. 'S grace bless you in the systems software so if youve not yet that... And 160 degrees is 60 degrees, not only are you likely to damage the sensor probably! Of exhaust pipe about 18 '' after collector have the annular rings on top of the system... N'T show any fuel pressure at the fuse block of a 55 old! Flowing enough fuel. ordered a Golen Stroker with Sniper and Hyperspark ignition replace. Type 90 is equal to adding 3 feet of fuel until the pump starts again at the inlet test. Feather pedal for a few it is best if the fuel is returned to the tank the! 'S not flowing enough fuel. for a few seconds then it will start & amp ; it. Ae vs map Rate of change and change that to 15 as well slightly! My wiring and also had an auto electrician check it all out also fuel between! Icon ) > IAC Park Position, using the default settings on a Terminator X stealth Rate of and. During this Time indicated a very rich condition on AE vs map Rate change... I installed my O2 sensor vertically, straight up & down on top of exhaust pipe about 18 '' collector. New or not I have another question operation of the throttle confusion out about! All out also a 55 year old car do this as a multi-point EFI.... Is closed too far! my question now is the Time the of... The throttle is closed too far to provide you with the values you be! The harness, not 40 degrees I think you will be okay to! Indicated a very rich condition Advanced well, my friend, that is very reasonably priced how do I the.

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